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I never want to go viral — well, unless I figure out how to become comfortable with getting a ton of mean comments from strangers. It seems like this happens basically no matter what you go viral for.

Like, the mob will be much more aggro if you're viral for something controversial. But even the most innocuous things will attract lots of mean comments, if enough people see it.

And people are biased to weight negative comments more highly, so I worry this has a rough psychological impact even if there's a lot more support than there is hate. (Unsure about this though. Maybe that's not the case. And maybe people who go viral are more ok hearing insults than average?)

in reply to kip

My childhood dream was to be a evangelical conservation biologist like Jeff Corwin or Steve Irwin but the cost of fame seemed to high even to 11 year old Tim


So I've been listening to Hadestown 2010. One of my favorites is Hey, Little Songbird. It's just such a pushy, patient, practical, sinister vibe, and pushes the narrative forward at the same time.

Lyrically:
The extended bird metaphor is really fun. Especially with all these phrases that are flipped from their typical positive connotation.
"fly south for the winter" [south = the underworld]
"I could use a canary" [He wants a songbird for music, but this line comes right after a reference to "down in the mine"]

Structurally:
Whenever Hades comes back in after Eurydice's part, he overlaps on her last word, which adds to the pushy feel to the song. (Eurydice doesn't start singing till he's fully finished.) Also, Hades' part has this lovely AABBC structure. The extra C line on each stanza makes it feel like he's taking his time.



Happy New AXRP!


Yet another in the Alignment Workshop series.

AI researchers often complain about the poor coverage of their work in the news media. But why is this happening, and how can it be fixed? In this episode, I speak with Shakeel Hashim about the resource constraints facing AI journalism, the disconnect between journalists' and AI researchers' views on transformative AI, and efforts to improve the state of AI journalism, such as Tarbell and Shakeel's newsletter, Transformer.

Transcript
Video



Someone linked me to the article Against SQL recently and it resonates with me a lot. I have a temptation to write a new SQL-like relational query language that tries to fix as many of these problems as I can, but this seems unreasonably ambitious for someone whose background is not databases (and who already has like 3 personal projects ongoing...)

(To be clear, I think unreasonable ambition is sometimes commendable. But I want projects that I'll actually finish.)



Idle thought: I wonder if we'll start seeing "training@home" training runs for open-source LLMs. Anyone care to run some numbers or sanity checks on whether this is possible in principle?

The folding@home project has been hugely successful, reaching at least exaFLOPS of compute.

"Training@home" would have to efficiently do partial gradient updates on extremely heterogeneous hardware with widely varying network properties; I'm not sure if this has any chance of producing base models competitive with e.g. Llama. In terms of ops alone, a 1 exaFLOPS network would have taken 10^7 seconds = ~half a year to train Llama 70b, and I imagine the costs of distributing jobs to such a network and coordinating on weight updates would make this much more expensive. So, probably not going to be competitive?

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

Just this month there was a proof of concept doing distributed training of a 15B parameter model using a new technique to reduce the amount of data that needs to be shared between GPUs, so that it's actually feasible for them to not be co-located. Which is neat! Buuuut they still were using H100s (80GB of memory) as their basic unit of compute. I don't think their technique lets you train models larger than would fit in memory on each GPU, which means any training@home project is going to be limited to single- or low-double-digit billions of parameters. Small models are neat and serve some purposes but we already have a lot of pretty good ones (Llama, Phi, Gemma, NeMo, etc) and it's not clear what the niche would be for a community-trained one. (I mean, porn, I guess, but there's already a lot of NSFW fine-tunes of those models.)
in reply to Kevin Gibbons

I would guess that there will be reasons to at least want an LLM trained on an open corpus, whether it's community-trained or not.

Example reasons include ensuring that the model isn't secretly trying to get you to buy McDonalds, and the possibility that companies start releasing un-fine-tunable models.



Happy new year superstims!


Sparklers are illegal in Alameda county apparently, so I guess I'm off to commit some crimes.

Ben Weinstein-Raun reshared this.



Maya likes to bake. I got her a couple of kid cookbooks for Christmas and now I find myself baking these ridiculous, overly sweet objects.


Man, I miss my huge-tree-antenna. Yesterday I set up a big loop antenna along my house's wall. It transmits fine, but the noise it picks up makes it almost useless.
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

Is this a problem that can be solved with money, like by just going ahead and getting an arborist preemptively?
in reply to Gretta Duleba

It definitely can't be solved with only money; it also requires at least coordinating with the landlord, who is a very reasonable person as far as Berkeley rationalist house landlords seem to go, but overall my guess is that it's not worth bothering him about it
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

I am probably being too problem-solvey right now and I hereby to resolve to stop after this round, but in my experience, arborists are willing to produce documentation of their findings that can later be shown to landlords!

You just sound sad about your antenna and I wanna fix it.



One of the most unique experiences I have currently is when I act like a massage chair for my cat: I'll repeat some specific movement with my hand (usually near her ear) as long as she's pressing into it, and then change it up to other movements she likes.


I've been meaning to start donating blood and/or plasma for a few years now, partly because it's a good thing to do, but also as a way to shed accumulating substances (PFASs have been studied, but also background heavy metals in the case of whole blood donation), but I use topical finasteride for hair loss, which I'd have to stop for a month before donating.

So, say I took a month off from finasteride, and then spent a month donating: whole blood once, and plasma 7 times. If my math is right, I'd have donated / regenerated 1 - 0.92^8 = ~half my blood volume; and ~10% of my body weight. Then maybe back to finasteride for two months, another month of no finasteride, and another donation month?

in reply to Daniel Filan

Maybe precisely in order to incentivize people to donate blood????
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

This doesnt address your musings . . . but I found plasma donation prohibitively unpleasant. It was painful and time consuming. By comparison, whole blood donation is a simple and easy way to help.


I'm finding it really hard to make #hamradio contacts in Delaware. Weirdly hard, given that the five states with smaller populations than Delaware were all much easier, even though some of them are further from me, and I've had no trouble making contacts in its neighboring states.

A few days ago I decided to try to be more strategic about contacting every US state since I was really close, and I've now spent probably twice the time trying to contact Delaware, as trying to contact all four of the other stragglers combined.

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

I just did the math, and it seems like Delaware is the state with the #2 lowest non-urban population. Only Rhode Island should be more difficult
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

Ok, now I looked at the ARRL license counts by state. Going by General+Extra only, modified for non-urban population percentage, Delaware comes out as the worst state.


I made something very silly on a whim and put it on YouTube; it will probably not make sense to you unless you know the song Die Young by Kesha youtu.be/O51SdESXu_A


Lately I’ve been enjoying listening to the album Inside by Mother Mother, which is very much about pandemic isolation. Makes me think: wow I sure do love a concept album!

Common features in concept albums that I really enjoy:

- Explorations of the same ideas from different angles.
- Connections between songs — a song about infatuation hits different after you hear it referenced later in a heartbreak song.
- figuring out the gestalt ideas and the way they’ve changed in the artist’s head over time.
- Taking the time to explore the little details and nuances that fit between the radio singles ab peak experiences.
- Intros, outros, interludes. Having a structural dynamics like this makes listening to the whole thing a satisfying longform experience.

Happy to hear any recommendations for other compelling concept albums, or other music that hits the above features. (I mostly listen to indie rock, folk, pop, psychedelic, etc, but happy to try new things!)

in reply to Sam FM

Not sure if this quite counts but I think the original 2010 Hadestown album is pretty great.
in reply to Sam FM

ooh, yes thanks for the reminder I've been meaning to listen to this!


Today I was inspired to ask ChatGPT for help with my health issues for the first time since o1 was released. It suggested that I might have Cushing's Syndrome, which actually makes a lot of sense. I don't think any doctors ever suggested this directly, but I do have a recollection of a doctor asking me if I was extremely thirsty or urinating a lot (I wasn't), which might have been a question for a relevant differential.

So hopefully tomorrow I'm going to wake up and go get a cortisol test.

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

Hm, cortisol levels are on the high end of normal. I wonder if I did have cushing's syndrome but am now managing it using ashwagandha and antidepressants.


The worst thing about studying Latin is that it's invaded my mind to the degree that I now almost feel like having five cases is reasonable.
in reply to Daniel Filan

"why not more? Why not make a dedicated instrumental case, or a locative that isn't a sewn-together monstrosity comprised by other cases?" - the sounds of a mind deranged by synthetic languages
in reply to Daniel Filan

Russian has six! Also the rules for declension in Russian depend on, among other things, whether something is animate. Are dolls animate? (Yes.) Are corpses? (Depends which word you're using.) Are bacteria? (Yes if you're a biologist, probably not otherwise.)


don't like this



I suspect that "epistemic and instrumental rationality" is better branded and lived as "nobility in thought and deed". But maybe I just have an unusual set of associations with the word "noble"? It's certainly more goal-laden than the word "rational" typically is.
in reply to Daniel Filan

The thing I mean is less altruistic than what David Chapman describes on this page but shares the feature of being valuable and possible.


So here's a dumb question about Jason Gross-style work on compact proofs that I don't want to ask totally publicly - what's the point? I see the value in making the case for interp as being for stuff like compact proofs. But I feel like we know that we aren't going to be able to find literal proofs of relevant safety properties of GPT-4, and we don't even know what those properties should be. So relevant next steps should look like "figure out heuristic arguments" and "figure out WTF AI safety even is" right? So why do more work getting compact proofs of various model properties?
in reply to Daniel Filan

I don't think it's obvious that we can't get proofs of any relevant safety properties. Like, yeah we're not going to get proofs of anything that references human preferences or whatever, but there might be relevant limited subquestions, e.g. about information capacity or something?
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

I guess I just mean that it's really hard to prove anything about big NN behaviour - my understanding is if you try really hard you can do interval propagation in a smart way but that's about it.
This entry was edited (4 months ago)


A question bopping around my mind: are there things like making AXRP or being a MATS RM that I could do instead of those things that would be more valuable? Possible answers:
- just do research that matters
- project manager at a place that does research that matters
- be more directly a competitor to Zvi
- team up with Lawrence Chan and write stuff about various alignment schemes

I think a bottleneck I feel is being unsure about what things are valuable in the info environment, where I think I'm best placed to do stuff.






So like.... what's so good about trains? Why would someone think they are so much cooler than cars / trucks / aeroplanes?
in reply to Daniel Filan

  • Bigger / heavier
  • Stronger / move more stuff
  • Make way better sounds
in reply to Daniel Filan

The infrastructure is somehow really appealing (rails, railroad switches, signals). And there's something great about the way they glide along the track.


don't like this

in reply to kip

(I think my mind is actually like 80-90% back to normal now that it's been almost a week! so, on the faster end of my estimate)
in reply to kip

Ok random update on this. I now have a suspicion that I had physical trauma-effects that were delayed (and longer-lasting) compared to the psychological effects

The noticeable psychological impacts started after a day or so, and lasted maybe 4-5 days?

And I didn't have post-exertional malaise (PEM) right after the incident. But I started getting PEM really easily from other stuff

Here are charts from one of my health trackers. The incident was on the 17th. The top chart is my physical exertion per day (measured with HR data). (Ignore the final entry -- it's only so low because the day just started.) The bottom chart is my morning HRV readings. As you can see, they trended lower for a while after the incident.

Perhaps this decline will persist, but in the last few days, I started getting the feeling that I'm returning to a somewhat-less-severe baseline



Thing I just learned: the author of Paul: a Very Short Introduction, one of my favourite entries in the Very Short Introduction series and one I frequently recommend, is written by E. P. Sanders - one of the most prominent 20th century scholars on the apostle Paul and his thought. Self-recommending!
in reply to Daniel Filan

It really says something about where I'm at today, that it took multiple seconds before I realized you weren't talking about Paul Christiano.
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

RIP I included 'apostle' or something in an earlier draft of this explicitly to counteract this, but randomly left it out of the final version. Fixing it.

in reply to Daniel Filan

In general on one hand I'm like "I'm so grateful English has so much grammar and vocabulary to make it so expressive" but when I see Latin I'm like "Japanese copes with just having past past and non-past plus some participles, why can't you" (not even getting to the whole thing of having different genders and different declensions for nouns and adjectives).
in reply to Daniel Filan

Ironically "coep-" is now the perfect stem I am perhaps least likely to forget.


Solstice notes


  • I like that the celebration took place on (or adjacent to) the actual solstice
  • I broadly thought this year's was worse than last year's, altho it had its charms
  • I liked "Humankind as a sailor" - tricky to pick up but rewarding once you did
  • Just because a song takes place in Australia, I don't think it thereby glorifies the negative aspects of colonialism.
  • The darkness speech was touching this year
  • I feel like a lot of the time the speaker would say something I straightforwardly agreed with in the way I would say it and everyone would laugh.
  • It was funny when Ozy said her favourite website was Our World in Data and Scott sang the praises of Dustin Moskowitz while I was sitting next to Oli
  • I think "the world is awful" is wrong, and not established by there being awful things in the world.
in reply to Daniel Filan

Also 'Humankind as a Sailor' is now on my non-core solstice music playlist and so popped up while I was on the rowing machine - total disaster, induced complete muscle confusion.


A big chunk of my current best-guess political philosophy is somewhat libertarian, the rough intuition being that in many important respects, things very often go better when people make their own choices, especially about how much things are worth to them.

This is a helpful framework when the agents in your economy / political system are relatively static entities. But as far as I know it doesn't really have anything to say about cases where one agent might mold another agent's preferences, or decide which agents to bring into existence.

Some examples include:

  • having children
  • many aspects of how children are raised
  • building AI agents
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

This suggests that if we want to figure out a liberal philosophy of building AI, we should look to find liberal philosophies of child-rearing.
in reply to Daniel Filan

Also have I tried to sell you on the book "Rationalism, pluralism, and freedom" yet?
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

It's one of these books where there's one idea and the rest of the book is not super interesting once you're sold on the idea but: academic.oup.com/book/2889
in reply to Daniel Filan

It doesn't answer your worries as far as I know, but feels like it offers conceptual vocabulary that's relevant.
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

Population ethics is the ~one area where my moral intuitions bottom out at "there is no actual answer here". Most questions of morality intuitively feel like there is a right answer but thinking about population ethics consistently leaves me with no solid foundations and nowhere to get foundations.

(Related: how should we think about farming animals for meat, given that mostly they wouldn't exist otherwise?)



Proposed fun / slightly edgy party game: Perzendo

Materials: index cards and a pencil, or a google doc.

One player is the perzendo master. This perzendo master writes the names of two people in the room, in a list sorted by some secret property.

The other players take turns. On each turn, a player either proposes a name (of any human, living or dead), or tries to guess the property. The perzendo master puts these names on the list, wherever they fall according to the secret property.

The first player to guess the rule correctly wins.

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

wouldn't the master quite often not know where they fall on the list? or does the property have to be something like "how much I personally want to ask them what's wrong with them" so that there's an answer even for people you've never heard of (presumably, not very much)
in reply to Ben Millwood

Yeah I think you either have to have an "I don't know" bucket, or it has to somehow be always up to the master's impression.


moving to alameda


I am currently in Sunnyvale, and it's genuinely astonishing how much less stuff there is down here than in the East Bay / SF. Like, people who are physically within San Jose still refer to San Francisco as "the city" despite San Jose having more people. Of the ~six dance events I'd like to be regularly going to, two are in SF and four are in Oakland, and zero are south of SF. Used to be one, where I met my wife, but it never recovered from Covid.

I'd guess there's more families in Sunnyvale than Oakland (... fact check: Sunnyvale is 20% minors, Oakland is 21%, so this is not true unless you quibble about definitions).

On the other hand Alameda is, from what I can tell, basically an ideal place for raising a family, and a lot of the island seems to lean into that (lots of Halloween decorations, e.g.; Halloween is our only child-focused holiday so this is a good signal of caring about doing things for children). And it's close to the rest of the East Bay, so I'm hoping I can get both the "good for family" and the "things ever happen" properties.

in reply to Kevin Gibbons

woo! congrats on getting it done. would be happy to see you and your wife/baby again when y'all aren't too swamped by boxes


Burned


in reply to Gretta Duleba

Yeah I've also shaved most of this yak herd before, and found it very frustrating :/ I think last time I ended up using Tutanota?

I guess in the movies they just want to use SMS or something.

This entry was edited (4 months ago)


I really like how smooth and clean this retention curve is - this is for my episode with Evan Hubinger, the height of the line is what fraction of viewers are still watching at any given time.


TIL that an experience that I've had ~once every month or so for my whole life, and assumed was near-universal, is actually relatively rare, and correlated with various bad things that I'm not aware of experiencing in relation to it (EBV infection, migraines, head trauma).

Basically, as I experience it (typically right as I'm falling asleep) everything visually starts to feel very small and far away, except that my tongue feels large and cumbersome in my mouth.

It's called Alice in Wonderland Syndrome; other people experience similar size distortions though the details vary a lot.

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

I don't know if we have discussed this . . . but me, too. So maybe it was passed down.
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

I have also experienced this!! Rarely, but enough for me to have noticed the pattern.


Mercer Girls


There are a bunch of places around Seattle named Mercer: Mercer Street, Mercer Island, Mercer Slough. We were walking in Mercer Slough today and I was trying to explain about Asa Mercer (one of the historical figures all this stuff is named after). I looked him up later. He looked like this.

One of his big claims to fame is that he brought the Mercer Girls to Seattle. Saith wikipedia:

The Mercer Girls or Mercer Maids were women who chose to move from the east coast of the United States to the Seattle area in the 1860s at the invitation of Asa Mercer. Mercer, an American who lived in Seattle, wanted to "import" women to the Pacific Northwest to balance the gender ratio. The women were drawn by the prospect of moving to a boomtown with a surplus of bachelors.


Now I'm imagining moving to Seattle in the 1860s and discovering that the men in Seattle did their hair like that. I am not entirely sure I would stay!



How much nesting can we do in English verb tenses, and what controls that? For an example of what I mean, I can say:
- I eat
- I will eat
- I will have been eating
- I will have been going to eat

But I don't think we can say "I will have been going to have eaten".

in reply to Daniel Filan

One possibility: basically it goes as far as it makes sense to add extra timing information. But this only works if you disagree about your last positive example, which I personally don't actually think I've ever heard used.

Like, imagine a timeline. "I eat" describes a period of time encompassing now. "I will eat" describes a period of time in the future. "I will have eaten" describes two times; one in the future and one in the past of that future. "I will have been going to eat" describes a time in the future, a time in the past of that future, and a time in the future of that past of the first future. But in some sense this collapses back to the semantic content of "I will eat", and so my guess is that it's basically never used.

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

Or, maybe I think your last positive example is sometimes acceptable, but only if the "going to" is actually describing an intention rather than tense information.
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

I guess I don't get why it makes sense to talk about two times but not three.
in reply to Daniel Filan

I think what I mean is that additional times around the loop aren't really adding any extra information, because they introduce new reference points along the timeline that typically don't connect to anything else.

Like, there's some implicit time T that I'm trying to locate with a given statement, and there's an additional time Now that I get from just being in the present.

It makes sense to be like "Some time between Now and [implicitly / contextually defined] T, X will happen", and this is ~ the two-level wrapping. But if you say "Some time between Now and [newly introduced / 'bound' / 'scoped-to-this-statement'] T1, it will be the case that X happened after [implicit / 'free' / contextual] T2", T1 is kind of irrelevant, since it's introduced and used only within the statement.

In principle I guess you could have extra context that disambiguates, but I think it's also kinda relevant that verbs tend to have a subject, a direct object, and up to one indirect object, and typically not more than that.

This entry was edited (5 months ago)
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

idk, I'm not sure this actually makes sense; the real answer might just be "ultrafinite induction"
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

Yeah I guess I'm stuck on "well why can't there be a bunch of relevant times".
in reply to Daniel Filan

Also FWIW I'm still stuck on the fact that however natural it is, I have a strong intuition that "I will have been going to eat" is grammatical in a way that "I will have been going to have eaten" is not.
in reply to Daniel Filan

my take is that arbitrary nesting is in some sense grammatical, but when interpreting things like this in the wild, I have to weigh up "they really mean the complicated thing" vs "they mean a simpler thing, but have said it incorrectly", and as the things become more complicated the latter explanation becomes more and more likely
This entry was edited (5 months ago)


Life Update, December 2024


in reply to Gretta Duleba

Overall sounds really exciting 🙂 - I hope the holidays are as unstressful as it's reasonable to hope for; sounds like a huge effort!

I have never heard of geezer gyms; maybe I should look into this?

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

I don't think it's a real category except in my own mind! My gym is small, densely packed with equipment, clean, and full of senior citizens. I think they just know value when they see it. :)


The UHC CEO murder has made me feel like I'm surrounded by bad people. I get the sense that "the UHC CEO assassination was good" is the default leftist stance.

It seems so absurd to me. They agree that people are innocent til proven guilty, but they're happy for CEOs to get executed based on a really flimsy understanding of their behavior.

Someone who runs prominent events I enjoy posted something that was (IMO) kind of misguided and cruel. I used to think "maybe these people would hate me if they knew my views" -- now I'm thinking "maybe *I* can't accept *them*."

Hank Green expressed sympathy... for the murderer.

This is such hatred. Bigotry feels like an understatement.

I just ordered some colorful genderqueer clothing from an indie brand. Do they support the assassination? I want to pick up fresh local bread from Berkeley Bowl. What about them? Am I supporting bigots? I wish it were practical to get away from this.

in reply to kip

Oh thanks, that set of poll results is actually mildly relieving
in reply to Daniel Ziegler

oh good. to be clear I didn't mean to imply "look how bad things are!" -- more like "here's some actual data; yeah things aren't extremely bad"
in reply to kip

I posted about this on Facebook: facebook.com/share/p/Yg3bYqU18… (I think it would be more preaching to the choir here)


I've now rescheduled my entire life around getting a hernia consultation twice, only to have UCSF reschedule at the last minute.

kip doesn't like this.



"Vouching" / friend-of-friend interactions


in reply to Gina Stuessy

I just realized that a title isn't necessary here; I think the "Submit" button looks disabled even when it's not (FYI @Ben Weinstein-Raun --also, I got an error with the "like" button a bit ago, but I just tried it again on my own post and it seems to have worked, but now I can't remove it, so I look like a dufus)


MOAR AXRP


This time with Erik Jenner, on a paper he's presenting at NeurIPS tomorrow - check it out if you're there!

Lots of people in the AI safety space worry about models being able to make deliberate, multi-step plans. But can we already see this in existing neural nets? In this episode, I talk with Erik Jenner about his work looking at internal look-ahead within chess-playing neural networks.

Video
Transcript



Tried using a portable vertical #hamradio antenna in my back yard this evening, as a replacement for the one I took down from the tree. It worked okay. Nowhere near the coverage I was getting from the 107ft wire, but I did manage to make a couple ft8 QSOs a few states away (South Dakota being the furthest).