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Messed up that Latin became the language of the intelligentsia in the middle ages and therefore has more pedagogical materials available now, when Greek has classical authors you obviously should care more about. Like, it has the philosophers! Not to mention the New Testament (and the version of the Hebrew Bible that the authors of the New Testament were familiar with), the Iliad and the Odyssey, and Greek myths (let's be real nobody cares more about Roman myths than Greek myths). Yes, it's cool that Latin has De Rerum Natura, Apuleius, and Cato, and the tradition of scholarship is a nice bonus. But c'mon!
in reply to Daniel Filan

I further guess this is a cautionary tale about the tradeoff between writing and conquering.
in reply to Daniel Filan

Tbf I think the Romans owned this, they were like 'the Greeks theorize, we get shit done'
in reply to Amber Dawn

It's like the LessWrongers and the EAs. As a LWer myself, I know where my sympathies lie...
in reply to Daniel Filan

LW: democratic and philosophical but also factious and discourse-ridden
EA: run by 1 or 2 extremely powerful guys who sometimes turn out to be deranged and corrupt. A woman called Julia is also involved.
in reply to Daniel Filan

Counter-argument: the point of learning an ancient language is to read the poetry not the prose (since prose is easily translated) and Latin poetry is plausibly better than Greek poetry.



I think web-of-trust is underused for spam and abuse prevention.

e.g. there could be a pretty simple "endorse" button for each account, which is basically saying "I vouch that this person is a real human and not a troll/spammer". Webs/chains of endorsement could be used to prove that someone ought to be able to interact with you. And for any given active interaction attempt ("react", "friend request", "tag"), there could be an opportunity to mark it as "spam", and accounts with lots of spam could become untrusted, and accounts that endorse lots of spam accounts could become untrusted as well.

In principle you could even implement this in an entirely decentralized way with some public-key crypto, though it might be too expensive in practice.



Latin practice day 7


These aren't very inspired but:

I. Cūr quaeque littera Graeca pulchrior est quam quaeque littera Latīna?
II. Sī linguam Latīnam scīre vult, quotiēs quamque litteram Latīnam scrībere necesse est?
III. Vōlōne ā magistrō laudārī?
IV. In Capitulō XVI, quia Dominus Iēsus tempestātem facit apud navem Lydiae? Lydia ā Deō dīligiturne?
V. Num medicus labōrans vērē sanat hominēs aegrōs?
VI. Num parēntēs laudant magister discipulōs verberāntem?
VII. Suntne bēstiolae industriorēs quam apēs? Quid facit illae?
VIII. Quia dea est pulcherrima?
IX. Hōdiē, quae bonae rēs daminī ā deī?

#latinpractice

in reply to Daniel Filan

Hōdiē sum in domō parentum matris mea, in Arizonā. In hāc domō, saepe dormō in lectō parvō in cubiculō parvō, sed hōdiē habeō magnum cubiculum ac magnum lectum. Cēnābam cum parentibus matris meus, et cum amīcīs suīs. Aliī hominēs ēdēbant magnam avem, sed ego edēbam botulōs quī ex holeribus fīunt, nam Pythagoricus sum. Cōnspiciēbāmus pēs-pilam (harpastum? calcifollem? I guess Vicipaedia uses "Harpastum") - Leōnēs Detroitī, quī amantur ā parentēs matris meus, vincēbant contra Ursōs Sicāgoensis!

(I only know the imperfect past tense, forgive me)



Relativistic Newcomb / Sleeping Beauty Newcomb


in reply to Kevin Gibbons

I suspect Relativistic Newcomb doesn't help much. I think most people would say "I'm already in the world where the opaque box contains money" as soon as they were no longer in the past lightcone of the moment where that gets decided, even if they weren't (yet) in its future lightcone either. It's more about whether information can still get from you to it, than about whether information can get from it to you.

The Sleeping Beauty case does seem good, though.

(for the avoidance of doubt, you do not need to explain to me why one-boxing is better :P )



Every country in the world belongs to America


Shouldn't the US buy the Vatican?
- they're rapidly going bankrupt and could use the money
- Trump would go for it
- the US is the new Rome
- would bring the US tons of geopolitical power
- new place to station US troops without any restrictions
- probably will ensure all Americans go to heaven
- zero downsides

Am I missing something?????

in reply to Daniel Filan

Cheaper than it seems because likely individual Americans are going to bail them out anyway.
in reply to Daniel Filan

Currently listening to a podcast episode floating the idea of the Pope issuing a tax on all Catholics. America can fix this.


:o vlang looks... very very cool to me. I am surprised that it's more than 5 years old, since it seems to offer many things that I've been wanting from a programming language and periodically searching for without luck:

  • Sum types
  • interfaces/traits/similar
  • generics
  • Reasonably fast at runtime (roughly on par with e.g. Go, from what I can tell)
  • optional GC
  • cares about development time (e.g. compilation times are fast)
  • cares about various kinds of safety (not as much as Rust, more than Zig). I think there are some substantial tradeoffs here around what happens if you avoid using the GC, since I think there's no borrow checking; e.g. does the stdlib have types that grow and invalidate your references?
  • extremely good cross-platform support (cross-compile GUI libraries for ~any platform including mobile, except that you can only build for macOS from macOS)

Basically it seems like they've added the ~3 features whose lack has made Go unpleasant for me when I've tried to use it.

vlang.io/

in reply to Daniel Ziegler

Yeah, or even Haskell; I always crave traits/typeclasses/interfaces when they're not available.
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

I think one of the key helpful things about my OCaml experience was learning about how much typeclass stuff can or can't be replaced with other mechanisms (e.g. making it convenient to locally control namespaces so that you can easily specify "I want X from module Y" instead of having it be type-driven).

It both lets you notice when you shouldn't (or at least needn't) be using ad-hoc polymorphism but also when you really do need it (e.g. OCaml I think would struggle to properly replicate Traversable and some other higher-order-polymorphism things).



New episode with Jesse Hoogland!


Another short one, I'm afraid.

You may have heard of singular learning theory, and its "local learning coefficient", or LLC - but have you heard of the refined LLC? In this episode, I chat with Jesse Hoogland about his work on SLT, and using the refined LLC to find a new circuit in language models.

YouTube
Transcript



The island nation of Milliput is divided into two warring factions: those who mix the hardener into the epoxy and those who mix the epoxy into the hardener


@Daniel Filan apparently the "learning ancient Latin and Greek involves example texts about daily life heavily involving slaves" thing dates at least back to ancient Roman schools for learning Greek.

youtu.be/yc-JYUqIsI4?si=k-hcZi…

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

Also thanks for the rec! I passed this up based on the thumbnail but it's really interesting!
in reply to Daniel Filan

Yeah I was kind of embarrassed to share it given the title, since apparently I clicked for some reason, but agree that it turned out to be interesting.


Lieke van der Vorst
From: https://x.com/marysia_cc/status/1861148591479288294/photo/1

-

Elena and Anna Balbusso
for Little Knife by Leigh Bardugo
From: https://x.com/marysia_cc/status/1861127999581528531/photo/1

#art

#art


Franz Karl Leopold von Klenze
From: https://x.com/0zmnds/status/1861121676735586756/photo/1

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Chesley Knight Bonestell, Jr.
From: https://x.com/0zmnds/status/1861297334195495170/photo/1

#art

#art


Being mean is bad




IMO it's kind of weird that there aren't more blog posts in the rationality-sphere about how to do group house living well. There are a bunch of tricky problems that need solving and opportunities for clever solutions that make people better off, so you'd think there would be much fodder. Possibilities:

  • Maybe people just don't think about it very much?
  • "Group house living" isn't as culturally salient a category as "parenting", so we're not used to writing about it?
  • Most of the problems involve being kind of annoyed at specific people, and so are inherently awkward to talk about?
in reply to Daniel Filan

in reply to David Mears

Yeah reading this I was like 'wow a lot of our lore is about chores'. I guess because this came up as an issue with us, whereas 'there are conflicts/annoyances with the other people' hasn't come up as much, possibly because two of the relationships were selected specifically for not being mutually annoying :p (and luckily you and Ben seem to not annoy each other that much)

Maybe the main tip is 'try to select people you really vibe with/share living preferences with', and if you manage that you will be well-placed to either not have problems (because your preferences don't clash), or to solve them?



I think a cool religious injunction / OCD symptom would be not being allowed to pass thru doors that other people open. You'd have to have fun rules about automatic doors that would result in you learning much more about them than most of us do. It also has cool symbolism.


This seems like a pretty thin market for a pretty important question!


Someone stole nearly all of my clothes this morning. I hate buying clothes because I hate the way I look, but I had to do it anyway, because all but two of my t-shirts were in the stolen bag and I'm flying to Nebraska for Thanksgiving on Sunday. I would like to live in a place where property crime was taken seriously.

don't like this

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

Jeez 😢.

A few days ago we found an open duffel bag with a bunch of clothes strewn around it in front of our door (also in Berkeley). My assumption is that it was stolen and everything valuable was removed before it was discarded. Sadly I couldn't find any info about the owner, so we couldn't even return the remaining clothes.

Ben Weinstein-Raun doesn't like this.

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

Ahhh wow. That sucks. I'm sorry you have to buy all your clothing again, that sounds really annoying.

A few years ago I went to a clothing swap. Someone brought a unique red and black scarf from overseas. It was lightweight and really pretty. I gave it to my partner (at the time) as soon as I got it. They had it in their backpack, and they left that backpack in their car for a few minutes while grabbing food from Butcher's Son. That was enough time for it to get stolen. Memorably disappointing.

Ben Weinstein-Raun doesn't like this.



brian david gilbert on hats; a comedy song that is surprisingly relatable, hard to excerpt due to its structure but my best effort is:

And how does it look?
And how do I look?
And how can I look how I look and not care?
Comparing my clothes with others, much closer
To their own goals or some sort of closure


youtu.be/bmFGbBmlyKQ?si=3Y-_sK…



Dyscalculia


in reply to kip

♥️ wow, I would definitely not have guessed this, and am very impressed; that sounds like it would make life way harder and that at various times you've succeeded at some of the things that I'd have guessed were hardest!

Re knitting: have you tried using alternating marker rings? Maybe Orange for Odd and grEEN for EvEN?

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

Interesting to hear you are impressed, because I am used to my own brain and I don't exactly intuit how hard/easy this stuff is for other people, haha

Good point on the markers! I forgot I could use little lobster-clasp things (like charms) in a way that would just mark one side. I think that's a good solution



Muting tags?


Is it possible to mute tags so I don't see any posts with that tag?
in reply to Daniel Ziegler

It should be in the sidebar on the left, or on mobile you have to click some chevrons in the top left corner


Hideo Takeda
From: https://x.com/opancaro/status/1859473265149776148


Does anyone know how to productively/supportively receive "venting"-shaped communication, when you don't want to reinforce or implicitly endorse the frame or set or assumptions that the venting is based in?

I feel like I have this dilemma a lot of the time: like, someone wants to share something that they're angry or upset or annoyed about, and clearly wants me to be entirely on their side about the thing, and I want to emotionally support them, understand where they're coming from, and help them process and/or strategize.

But honestly about 80% of the time, especially if it's someone who I'm not extremely close to, I find it really hard to straightforwardly do those things because I feel triggered about the context somehow, either because it seems like it's assuming things I don't believe, or because I feel attacked in some way, e.g. because I often have substantial sympathy toward the target of the anger or annoyance, as well as toward my friend.

I wish I knew what to do in these situations.

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

I’m going through this problem right now and I’m stuck on the thing that various people mention above about affirming or validating feelings. It’s very hard to come up with a true statement i can utter that acknowledges the feeling well without implying some agreement with the frame.
in reply to David Mears

I ended up using conditionals: “I can understand why you would be upset”, “It would be hurtful to feel [how they interpret the situation]”


Kinda sad that the easiest genuine Latin for intermediate learners to read is literal dictatorial propaganda glorifying aggressive war.


Not loving that YouTube is congratulating me on becoming an agent of addiction


In the past I've been a little skeptical of the fediverse (and similar things). But it's suddenly feeling real to me that I can have my cute lil Friendica instance with my friends and treat it like Facebook, while also engaging with friends on Mastodon or Bluesky who didn't have to join my instance, and this feels genuinely exciting.


Franz Caucig
From: https://x.com/0zmnds/status/1858558034307674338


Made a brief podcast episode about my experience learning latin: youtu.be/owF5Fo43-qU


My friend organized a trip to Tonopah, Nevada for her birthday and I was able to join at the last minute. Tonopah is an old silver mining town but the main attraction is a (reportedly haunted) clown-themed motel.



The Real Realm
Liu Kuo-Sung 1999
From: https://x.com/blanc_alba/status/1858225969443811511

-

Arte: Vol des grues vers la lune d'or
by Fujiyama Nobu; Rudi.
From: https://x.com/ClaraOlwen/status/1858242777517109366



I am considering buying a multimeter because idk I guess I'm at the time in my life when people buy multimeters.

I don't know much about them -- is there any point trying to find a good one, or are they fairly consistent / standard?

in reply to Ben Millwood

Actually I should add that I'd recommend getting a clamp meter if you have a car, even though they cost more. It's extremely useful for measuring currents flowing from your car battery when your car is meant to be off (and thus helping to figure out why your battery needed a jumpstart).
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

one of my ambitions in life is to get through adulthood without ever having to learn to drive


I am posting from superstimulus and maybe it will go to bluesky also


Allegedly, the Bluesky connector in Friendica should let you use your Bluesky account from within Superstimulus (go to Settings -> Social Networks). I have a Bluesky account, but I don't really use Bluesky so I don't know how well it works yet. I've enabled "post to Bluesky by default"; fingers crossed!


Senju Hiroshi
Night Performance, 1995
From: https://x.com/marysia_cc/status/1857935683240997187/photo/1


Short AXRP with Alan Chan!


Another fun short episode!

Road lines, street lights, and licence plates are examples of infrastructure used to ensure that roads operate smoothly. In this episode, Alan Chan talks about using similar interventions to help avoid bad outcomes from the deployment of AI agents.

YouTube link
Transcript



I've said this and things like it elsewhere, but o1-preview feels qualitatively better than other LLMs to me, in a way that I don't think I experienced even with GPT-4 vs GPT-3. My implicit superintelligence timelines actually grew a bit longer with GPT-4's release, and have grown a bit more in the time since, but using o1-preview has shrunk them again. It's also increased my felt probability that AI systems will be scheme-y in ways that are hard to detect.
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

Convenient timing: o1 is now available to all usage tiers in the API, so I believe you can just sign up and start using it.


Senbon Ichou by Mikiko Noji
From: https://x.com/marysia_cc/status/1857705164251050362


Cracking Eggs


The best way to crack eggs is the highlander method: beat two eggs against each other. This overly easy method preserves rarely makes a mess, and is tolerant to a lot of different levels of force.

But don't just look on the sunny side: the highlander method has a major flaw. What do you do with the last egg? If you haven't hatched a plan, you may scramble to one of the inferior methods: counter or bowl.

The counter method is the safe option: it consistently produces a small mess, even if your strike is eggsceptional. But if you're ready to leave your shell, the bowl is for gamblers and dreamers: it can produce a mess-free egg if you aim things perfectly, but you'll end up with shell everywhere unless you crack it eggsactly right.



From:
- https://x.com/0zmnds/status/1857570527134859688/photo/1
- https://x.com/0zmnds/status/1857570023830847567/photo/1


Shoda Koho ( 1871-1946 ) Moonlight Sea c. 1930
From: https://x.com/marysia_cc/status/1857172152174157921/photo/1

+

Leonard Weisgard
illustration from Look at the Moon (1969)
From: https://x.com/marysia_cc/status/1857488438691291585/photo/1



Gotta love the version of cost-effectiveness analysis where you just assume the thing you're doing matters 10,000x as much as things alternative projects do. https://x.com/SpacedOutMatt/status/1857498592732131722