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controvert: someone who gains social energy from arguing with people


Something really wild to me is the extent to which archaeology seems to believe that artifacts were used for some kind of religious / worshipful purpose.

Like, in the modern world, relatively very very few objects are used for worship. If a future civilization finds a figurine, it's probably a Barbie doll or a Funko Pop or something.

Future civilizations might find our most treasured artifacts and presume that we worship glass rectangles or something.

Seems kinda weird if this is the default assumption for unexplained historical artifacts, as it naively appears (to a non-archaeologist). Like, why do we think that these figurines are fertility goddesses rather than toys or instructional tools or even pornography?

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

I contend that we do worship glass rectangles.

Nobody thought Christianity was a 'religion' when it was dominant. They thought of it as 'the way things really are' and no one described it in terms of religion.

Our current 'secularism' is also a 'religion' in this same way. We don't see it as religious activity to go to a supermarket or post on Facebook. But ... it is?

in reply to renshin

> Nobody thought Christianity was a 'religion' when it was dominant. They thought of it as 'the way things really are' and no one described it in terms of religion.

FWIW I don't think this is true. If you want to talk about the New Testament authors, the last bit of James 1 seems to talk about Christianity as a religion, James and Paul talk a lot about "the faith", Hebrews 11 talks about faith as belief in things unseen and seems to indicate it's a good thing. The proceedings of the Council of Trent talk about "the Christian Religion" (e.g. history.hanover.edu/texts/tren…).

[I mean TBC they also thought it was "the way things really are"]

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Daniel Filan

Hmm lemme clarify.

RE: 'Religion' as 'worldview you can select into or out of' -- at the time of Christianity's dominance (which wasn't until much after New Testament being written anyway), no one thought of Christianity as a worldview. They thought of Christianity as the way things really are.

"Religion" was more like those pagan traditions that you could opt into or out of but were clearly wrongheaded, outdated, nonsensical, and everyone knows are made up. That's what I mean.

Now we use 'religion' in the same way, without recognizing that our dominant worldview is also a religion in fact.

in reply to renshin

FWIW this wasn't clear from the way I wrote things up but the Council of Trent was held in the 16th century as a reaction to Protestantism. People at the time really did use words like "faith" and "religion" to describe Christianity, altho I'm not sure they would have said you could opt out of it or that it was made up.

At any rate, zooming out, I feel like we can drop the word "religion" and there's still an important thing here. My understanding is that most religious practitioners think that there's something importantly different about the rituals I'd be tempted to call "religious" (e.g. going to mass / church service, sacred artwork, etc) and stuff I'd be tempted to call "secular" (e.g. drinking a can of soda, going on my phone), even when they think mass / sacred art is super important and real. So there's still a live question of "was this pot related to by people back then more like the way believers relate to sacred artwork, or more like the way believers relate to cans of soda".

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun



Recently I've had some physical issues that have kept me from being physically active (not that I'm usually very active, but this has been even worse than normal):

  • About a month ago I learned I have a hernia after doing some wood-chopping (which is really fun btw), and I've been having an upsettingly difficult time setting up an appointment for surgery to fix it
  • A week after that, I broke my pinky toe by accidentally kicking a staircase in the dark

The hernia has kept me from feeling good about doing any kind of weightlifting, and the broken toe has made it hard to walk more than a few blocks. This kinda sucks and I'm not sure what to do about it.

Maybe I should be cycling more? Anyone have other ideas?

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

@Rick Korzekwa would know better than me but I would have assumed that cycling would use some abs for pulling your legs up, the same way jumping does?
in reply to Daniel Filan

Yeah, it will depend on the style of bike and how it fits you. Most bikes people use for things other than racing can probably be adjusted to keep you relatively upright so you don't need to use your core as much.


Camino Day 7


Tui to Mos, 21km. Another beautiful stretch of forest. I stopped early today because I had a big day yesterday and the next stretch of road is supposed to be very hilly.

I had a nice moment in the early morning, running into some bagpipers playing in the middle of the forest. It was cool because you could hear them for a long time before you could see them so there was a stretch that felt very fairy-like and mysterious

in reply to Jen Blight

To be fair, there's some selection bias in what I post. Sometimes it looks like:


Maybe you're not supposed to say this in public, but I feel like if Islamist terrorists were serious they'd also threaten people with death for depicting Jesus.
in reply to Daniel Filan

I think the different response is related to different inferences about the intent of the artist. That is, they know that Christians like to depict Jesus as part of their religion, and this doesn't bug them to much. But they think that the only reason to depict Muhammad is to insult their religion, so they take it as a deliberate insult.
in reply to Guive

Sure but it communicates that the thing they care about is being insulted, rather than ensuring that people follow God's commandments. Which is sort of a weak and embarrassing stance.
in reply to Daniel Filan

(1) There's some truth to this. Violent islamists are on average, worse than most people in various ways.

(2) But also, they may see it more as a direct insult to God as opposed to an insult to them personally or their human social group. Compare their stance towards practicing Christians and Muslim apostates. Both groups go to hell, on the conventional conservative Muslim understanding. But they are much more bothered by apostates.

in reply to Daniel Filan

I agree that terrorists are in some sense not serious and tbh I think it's for the best

or rather, second best, behind "not being terrorists"



I feel like the "introvert/extravert" axis bundles (at least) 3 things together in a kind of unhelpful way:
- low vs high need to socialize
- low vs high gregariousness
- low vs high desire to talk to people you don't know

These are sort of related, but I feel like usually when I hear people talk about extraversion or introversion they would usually be better served by appealing to a sub-factor rather than the bundle.

in reply to Daniel Filan

Yeah, this seems true. How do you define 'gregarious' separately from the other things?

Other dimensions could be related to social anxiety, awkwardness, and/or masking. A lot of the time when I "don't want to talk to people" or it drains my energy to do so, it's because I feel uncomfortable in the situation, rather than because there's something I inherently dislike/find tiring about talking to people.

in reply to Amber Dawn

@Amber Dawn by "gregarious" I'm trying to say something like "tendency to socialize / talk a lot / more than you 'need to'". So "feel bad if you don't socialize" vs "feel good if you socialize a lot".



in reply to kip

FWIW, my experience has been that nurses are often more concerned about the discomfort than I am, and almost never less concerned. But maybe this is mostly due to the kinds of things I've experienced in hospitals. Like, I've had lots of things with very minor discomfort where I'm not bothered by it, but they warn me or try to be supportive about it, because some people care a lot. And then I've had things that are super painful, but they know this, warn me before hand, and they try really hard to make it less bad. But I think there are intermediate cases where the thing really sucks, but it's not quite in the "obviously extremely painful" category, where there can be a significant disconnect between patient experience and provider concern.
in reply to Rick Korzekwa

I'm glad you've had a good time with nurses. There's a lot of variance, so I expect many people feel this way overall.

I think there are intermediate cases where the thing really sucks, but it's not quite in the "obviously extremely painful" category, where there can be a significant disconnect between patient experience and provider concern.

Yes -- I think in many of these situations, the provider does not believe that the patient is suffering as much as they claim. As a patient, it's very distressing. I've had a lot of good healthcare experiences as well, but bad experiences have the potential to be intensely bad.




Free Manifold alpha


In this market about how many episodes of AXRP I'll publish in 2024, there's an 11% chance I'll publish less than 9, the number I have published so far. manifold.markets/DanielFilan/h…

(The motivation of the market was to test whether I'd succeed in publishing a ton - in fact, I've been down an editor for a bit which slowed me down, as did having a real job, but I still think I'll beat my all-time record of 10 episodes in 2022)

in reply to Daniel Filan

For more AXRP markets:
- How many episodes I'll release in 2025: manifold.markets/DanielFilan/h…
- How many YouTube views my peak episode will get in 2025: manifold.markets/DanielFilan/h…


"Coherence theorems"




Camino Day 6


I'm in Spain now!

Today I turned off the Coastal route and walked inland along the Minho river, culminating in the medieval cities of Valença (on the Portuguese side) and Tui (on the Spanish side), for a total of 29km. I chose to take the cycling path along the river most of the way rather than the official route which runs through several towns. On the way, I came across a huge open air market and bought myself a Weird Little Guy (pretty sure it's Saint Anthony)

The cities were particularly cool. The route runs directly through the old Valença fortifications and as you approach the bridge you can see Tui cathedral on the hill above the river.

Tui is 118km from Santiago. Meaning that I have gone 142km already but also that tomorrow I start collecting my stamps to qualify for the Compostela rather than because it is fun.



What are the norms about sharing screenshots of posts on this site (without usernames), with third parties for discussion? For example, if I see a post asking for book recommendations, and I want to ask my friends in a private group chat whether a certain book would be a good recommendation, can I do that?
in reply to Guive

If I know the post you mean, I think it's set to "public", so I'd say it's fair game. For posts that aren't set to "public", I think I want to recommend using your judgement, erring on the side of not-sharing-without-permission.


markdown




limited-audience posts


I'm planning to write misc techy blog posts here. I wish when I wrote stuff for a niche audience, I had some way of saying "if this post is not for you, you can filter out posts like these". When I write a post there's a "categories" input field, but I don't yet know what they're for, and I don't see an easy way to configure my ignored categories (maybe this is what channels are for? but I think people don't look at channels / know what they are by default). For the sake of experimentation, I added a "meta" category to this post.

For the time being I'm just going to post stuff and not worry about it, but I'd be interested to hear from people who have already solved this problem.

in reply to Ben Millwood

Probably you don't want to do it this way, but in principle you could make a sub-user or even a group (i.e. a sub-user that auto-reshares things you tag it in) for this.

I do think you can use channels for this, by making a new channel that excludes the tags you don't want to see. I haven't tried it though.

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

I just enabled a content filter addon called N.S.F.W. (with periods removed) that lets you collapse posts that trigger simple rules including words, tags, or regexes. Hoping the performance impact isn't massive.
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

This does seem to have made perf much worse for me, I'm going to disable it again :/
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

Yeah, I think a group is what I'd go for if people did complain it was noisy, but the drawback is that it's opt-in: people need to specifically follow the new thing if they want to see the posts.


Bounties that take into account the time cost


#2
in reply to kip

This makes me think of how in normal society there are a variety of expensive-to-verify tasks that have their quality/correctness guaranteed by the threat of reputational damage, or even malpractice/liability lawsuits.

Say a civil engineer submits a design for a bridge, and then it collapses on day #2 after the expensive construction is complete. Even if he can't get sued to cover the construction company's loss, he'll have trouble finding work afterwards.

But with internet bounties, generally people aren't laying their expertise and credibility on the line with their suggestions, so there isn't much of an incentive to hold back from offering dubious solutions.

#2
in reply to kip

I've seen bounties like "$X if your solution works, -$Y for every solution you suggest that doesn't work/every 10 minutes I have to spend making your solution work."


Camino Day 4 & 5


Castelo do Neiva to Carreço and Carreço to Seixas. Both 22km stages.

As I've gotten farther from Porto the towns have gotten smaller and more of the route had consisted of forest paths and walled alleys, typically routing into town whenever there's a Big Old Church to get a stamp at

The past two days I've been traveling with other solo women that I met on the road, one from the UK and the other from Lithuania, both friendly and enthusiastic. B, who I spent both days with, was excited to learn it was my birthday and told everyone we ran into at the hostel (something I wouldn't have done myself). A big group of us went out for dinner and everyone sang happy birthday in their native language.

I've enjoyed the sense of community among the pilgrims; the one thing everyone has in common is that we're all on a Big Adventure.



Note: You can invite people to this instance if you'd like! Please only invite people you trust to be kind, friendly, and reasonable. Especially only invite people you're sure are human.

To invite someone, go to your "contacts" page and click on "invite friends" in the left sidebar. You'll need their email address.


You can invite arbitrary numbers of non-asshole people! In fact at this point I'm excited about it! There's some chance that if my server becomes way overloaded I might have to impose restrictions on invites or start asking for donations, but for now go crazy.

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

Am I able to private message people on this website / instance / server / thing?
in reply to Daniel Filan

Yes, you can either use the DMs feature (which is sadly very limited) or tag them in posts that only they can see.


Seeking non-fiction recommendations


in reply to Amber Dawn

I'm a big fan of the "Very Short Introduction" series, whose books are ~200 page books giving an overview of some topic. Topics include global economic history, Islamic finance, democracy, schizophrenia, the second Vatican council, amphibians, and ancient Egyptian art and architecture.
in reply to Daniel Filan

I've read some of those in the past, but I could check out some more!
in reply to Amber Dawn



Me to my partner, after complaining about doing something that I mildly regretted:

"Oh well, I guess I have to have *some* flaws, or I wouldn't be relatable"


Incidentally, is tagging a thing here?

in reply to Amber Dawn

when I type @ and start typing a name it suggests people to tag


latest solution to corporate malfeasance: build a giant magnet so you can yank your executives out when they're causing trouble


Is anyone using a mobile app (I'm on Android, but curious either way) to access this thing, rather than the browser experience? Though tbh I don't remember why I use the Facebook app instead of the website. It can't be push notifications because I've turned them all off.
in reply to Sam FM

I've done this but it looks ugly:
194337275766e4c3db0bec2337391926-2.jpeg

Apparently this can be controlled with some shenanigans, see StackOverflow. I don't know if that's within the power of @Ben Weinstein-Raun to control?

in reply to Ben Millwood

I think it's technically within my power, since I could go in and directly edit the template, but I'm hesitant to do so since it might result in trickier updates in the future.


in reply to Rick Korzekwa

Good God, that example tier list on Wikipedia is awful. Apples are S and strawberries are F???


Camino Day 3


Shorter day today. Walked 18km from Apulia to Castelo de Neiva.

Still spending the majority of the day in or near towns but the towns are getting smaller with stretches of greenery in between



Do y'all remember that princeton election guy who forecast a win for Clinton with 99% in 2016? I just found a post-mortem interview with him where he says:

Probabilities are not a good way to convey uncertainty. The first reason being that it’s hard to estimate the true amount of uncertainty, and I discovered that.

I... have never before felt such a strong urge to say "skill issue". But people weren't saying "skill issue" yet in 2016, so nobody got the chance. Time is cruel.

psmag.com/news/meet-a-polling-…

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

Sam Wang and Nate Silver had an interesting back-and-forth, if I remember correctly. A friend of mine was convinced that Sam was right and that Nate was “putting his thumb on the scale to cover himself.”

In hindsight, it seems to me that Sam’s approach was more of a straightforward averaging of polls, while Nate’s method is more like a gambler’s—integrating his own beliefs into the model.



Camino Day 2


Today was more coastal boardwalks, then through a mid-size city, then more coastal boardwalks, then some back roads in farm country. The albergue that I planned to stay at filled up by 3pm and I ended waling an additional 8km, making this a 28km day in total from Labruge to Apulia.

I'm second guessing some of my decisions. I stuck with the coastal route today (meaning I'm committed for the next couple of days) but I had the opportunity to take a more inland route and now I wonder if that would have been more "nature-y". I could have stopped in the city and saved my legs. I could have gotten more stamps if I had planned differently, etc.

Tomorrow will be a shorter day so I can recover. My host says it's easier to find albergues between here and the Spanish border

in reply to Jen Blight

Are you communicating mostly in Spanish/Portuguese? Or do people know some English?
in reply to Jen Blight

People in Lisbon and Porto mostly knew English and the albergue hosts so far have used English. Some of the people in the towns I'm going through only speak Portuguese and it's not similar enough to either French or Spanish for me to understand so there are interactions that consist entirely of Gesture and Context Clues


I might be better off taking portraits at events


in reply to kip

I've definitely heard people express the opposite opinion, that they have a harder time with event photography than portrait photography. So if you're good at event photography that seems like a valuable skill.


I'm wondering if the slow death of my social networks has atrophied my habits for posting/content creation.


What is an "agent"?


in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

From my background, it almost sounds like "actor" fits your description of "agent" better. "Agent" in my context historically being like a daemon, except in some user session context in order to be able to do I/O in said context ;)
in reply to Soccum Speleodontidae

yeah the usage here is from economics / game theory / AI, where it means basically "thing that's doing stuff to suit some preferences"


How do tools differ from trading partners?


Is it that you model trading partners primarily as agents, and tools primarily as stimulus/response rules?
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

one relevant difference is that trading partners might optimise against you, while tools generally don't


Camino Day 1


Started from the Sé do Porto and walked as far as Labruge on the Sendo Litoral route for a total of ~24km. The route goes along the coast and is a mix of sidewalk and boardwalk. It was foggy throughout the morning and then cleared up in the afternoon but stayed cool all day. The coast was beautiful.

My feet hurt. I'm going to try to do a similar mileage tomorrow and hope I acclimate to walking

in reply to Jen Blight

Thanks! I've done longer individual days (including with more weight/altitude change) but this trip will be the longest total distance I've covered


Test post (message?)


Comment or like this message/post if you see it if you feel like it. This is a public message without a title. "This post will be shown to all your followers and can be seen in the community pages and by anyone with its link." I have no contacts (yet) and am learning how this works.


friendi.ca API


in reply to Ben Millwood

@Ben Weinstein-Raun assuming you're on board with me using superstimul.us in this way, I might need you to create a consumer key / secret for me? I haven't been able to find docs on how to do this so far.
in reply to Ben Millwood

Yeah happy to try to do that! Once or twice when I was stumped I've found reading the Friendica source code surprisingly doable, if that helps
in reply to Ben Millwood

I just figured out OAuth and wrote my findings up on their wiki at wiki.friendi.ca/docs/api-authe…

I probably will integrate it with flexiprocity, but I'll probably take my time about it. I anticipate it being quite fiddly.



David Mears reshared this.

in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

Just to check: are you open to people inviting arbitrary amounts of (non-asshole) people, or do you still want to be cautious/grow slowly/have limits on who's invited?
in reply to Amber Dawn

You can invite arbitrary numbers of non-asshole people! In fact at this point I'm excited about it! There's some chance that if my server becomes way overloaded I might have to impose restrictions on invites or start asking for donations, but for now go crazy.
in reply to Ben Weinstein-Raun

I'm guessing it's only because I have only 1 friend so far, but I have an empty feed, so I am discovering posts using the circular button in the navbar. It's a confusing interface!

> "The top left icon, with the rectangular grid, is the thing to click in order to see the "Facebook timeline" analogue